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Name: headbanger
Subject: to the author
-- May 8, 2008 at 2:32PM
"And they’d view a documentary like this as if it were a video yearbook, the real one, not the fake one at school where all the popular kids made the rules."
That is very true, and I'm telling you because I was one of those kids.
Name: Josh Wilcox
Subject: Deja Vu!
-- Mar 12, 2008 at 9:13PM
Wow!
Very Funny!
As a forty year old survivor of the 80's. I tip my hat to the writer!
God bless us! and God help us!
While I read it, I could swear I saw pictures of people I remember from high school. Yet I went to high school on the west coast. (a.k.a. "west Cowst")
Weird!
Name: William S. Repsher
Subject: Response
-- Jan 2, 2008 at 4:39PM
Jeffrey, you should pick up the DVD of this on Amazon, which is going for about $10 now -- I did recently. One of the special features is a knowledgeable metal fan who owns a record/CD store in Maryland going into his basement (which is packed with records, CDs and tons of metal memorabilia), pulling out all his Judas Priest albums, and giving a highly detailed tour through the start of their career to their last album.
I found it fascinating (I gather most people would be bored to tears), because this guy obviously knew his subject inside and out, and pointed out the different stages of the Priest's recording career, the most interesting one being the change from British hard rock band to one of the first clearly "metal" bands, mainly via Halford's leather fetish which spread to the rest of the band ... and the band then writing more compact/radio friendly songs.
He made it clear that in 1986, the band was a good few years into their more poppish metal phase: shorter songs, and the subject matter often geared towards kids.
It puts into better context the kind of audience that would turn up at a Priest concert in 1986, as opposed to one in 1982 ... or even 1976, for that matter.
Yeah, it's fair to say I don't like metal on the whole. I like hard rock -- I know there's a big difference to metal fans. It always seemed childish to me, even when I was a kid. I think if you let me borrow all your Priest discs, I'd end up with a 2-CD collection of everything I'd ever want to hear by them. Actually, Jordan Hoffman gave me a CD-R filled with Iron Maiden MP3s -- I think if I waded through it, I'd come up with a one-disc collection.
I wouldn't say the kids in HMPL are low-lifes so much as they're mislead -- again, many of my friends in high school were metal heads. It was just one of those things where the twain didn't meet between us, save for older bands like Sabbath.
An interesting, but far under-explored, special feature on the DVD is the "Alumni" section ... where they actually track down the "Madonna ... she's a dick" zebra-striped kid ... who is now an apparently sedate thirtysomething guy in rural Maryland, with a nice house, who's into hunting, fishing and country music ... you can tell he's a little embarrassed by his past. They also track down Dave "20 years old ... ready to rock" Hilby ... and now he's 40 years old and still ready to rock, totally unashamed of all this and in fact reveling in it via a power trio he has with his brother and a friend (their song about the parking lot is awful). They also get the pretty girl from Reston, VA, who married a musician and still looks great.
I'd have loved to see them track down everyone to get a more full spectrum of how these people faired in life.
The chances of getting me to go see Priest now are just about none ... I just don't have the urge, and honestly, I'd feel silly. I've sort of lost the meaning of what it means to see bands play live -- there's just too much discomfort and annoying crap involved with seeing a show, on top of how expensive these things have become. It just doesn't seem worth it to me and hasn't for awhile. Last show I saw was John Fogerty and Willie Nelson in New Jersey two summers ago, because the tickets were free, and I still felt like I'd had enough. Of course, your mileage may vary, and if you still get a kick out of seeing Priest, then, indeed, rock on.
Name: Jeffrey H
Subject: Heavy Metal P.L.
-- Dec 13, 2007 at 4:57AM
I have not yet seen HMPL but after reading this article I hope to soon. It's been long overdue. Ever since I saw Deep Purple during the 'Machine Head' tour in 1973 I have been a huge metal fan. All I lived for for 10 years from when I was 16 was to go to heavy metal concerts. I have seen Priest about 6 times and they are a classic, influential band. Their best tracks still sound as great as ever (example: Stained Class). But I wasn't one of the people represented in this movie. At the concerts I understood and tolerated the goofs, but I never got drunk or stoned because I loved the music so much it didn't make sense to get messed up and not remember the fabulous performances. Repsher is quite similar to many run-of-the-mill rock critics and typically harsh in his appraisal of these kids because he is obviously literate, and articulate - exactly what these kids aren't. To him these are lowlifes with no appreciation for thoughtful or insightful songs; metal is just an excuse to party and get fucked up. However, the kids get what is great about Judas Priest and metal: the extreme power of the music superimposed over exquisite guitar harmonies and melodies. I never let the loutish metal audience diminish my appreciation for high quality metal music.
However Mr. Repsher makes a couple of great observations. One is how white working class kids are ridiculed for their music and behavior, but the black scene is treated much more seriously. Tuneless, musically retarded, anitsocial rap garbage conceived and performed by semi-literate criminals is perceived as an art form.
The other interesting point raised is "there were plenty of smart metal heads ... but only if they had Rush in their tape collection". As a 30 year Rush fan I AGREE! But Iron Maiden, Helloween, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, Ozzy, Black Sabbath, Scorpions are right up there as metal all-stars too. In closing, I wonder if Mr. Repsher has ever seen Judas Priest or Iron Maiden live. If anybody reading this hasn't, do yourself a favour and before it's too late, go see a concert by the Gods Of Metal. Although they are past their prime, both bands are still talented and professional, with such an extensive body of work you will be impressed. Rock on.
Name: Anonymous
Subject: Update
-- May 21, 2007 at 9:46PM
Please keep the hug.
However, I would like to withdraw my comment about your sense of humor and offer a sincere apology for my comment.
Anonymous
Name: Anonymous
Subject: William S. Repsher
-- May 21, 2007 at 9:07PM
AAIS has it right down to a tee. Repsher has no sense of humor, by judging his responses to people who commented on his article here.
Mr. Repsher needs a hug. Here you go Mr. Repsher, here is your hug.
Please don't cuss me out for giving you this.
Anononymous
Name: Metal Kid
Subject: I Was There
-- Feb 13, 2007 at 2:53PM
I went to that show with my buddy 'Johwn'. I make a comfortable six-figures and he's retired in Newport Beach. Jump that bowne.
Name: William S. Repsher
Subject: Blast from My Past
-- Feb 3, 2007 at 12:13PM
Man, you check out of here for awhile, and look what happens!
For the record, folks, this article is over six years old. The folks at Leisure Suit have long since moved on to movies, and they no longer send me updates whenever someone checks in here with a comment -- and that's fine by me. Six years! Someone writes an article in a print publication, you're going to have a hard time finding people six weeks after publication with any interest in it. This is great.
I've yet to get the DVD version of HMPL -- and I want to, mainly for the updates on various cast members, which sounds interesting. Noticed a comment down the list how odd it was that one of the guys was now into country. That's not so odd -- I've known plenty of people into metal and punk who later got into country -- especially punkers. And I don't necessarily mean Keith Urban. I'm talking stuff like Johnny cash, rockabilly, Hank Sr., Waylon Jennings, etc. It's great music -- and surely not any indicator that the guy has "sold out" in any sense. I hope everyone sells out if it implies moving past his teenage musical tastes as he gets older.
Also, the poster who gave me a geo-social lesson on that part of the country -- I do appreciate the more full take on that part of the country. But just because the concert location is near upscale Maryland communities, and one or two kids identify themselves as being from a wealthy suburb, doesn't imply the audience will be upscale. There would have been kids from all over rural Maryland and Virginia going to that show. If those kids were upper-middle-class, they had me fooled, because they had all the mannerisms of working-class metal kids from the 80s. And even within the place I grew up, which was overwhelmingly working-class, you rarely saw well-to-do kids get that far into metal (most didn't get into metal at all) that they'd adopt the lifestle, or spend money going to a concert. But you do raise a good point I hadn't considered. Still, if Priest holds a concert in NYC, you're going to have an overwhelming number of working-class folks (now middle-aged) swarming in from Long Island, Jersey, upstate New York, etc. Then again, these guys are probably making just as much as their white-collar counterparts these days. Learned that lesson at a Springsteen concert in East Rutherford, NJ -- which features hundreds of pricey Winnebagos and clearly working-class guys behind them grilling, the same way they would for a Giants home game.
If you scroll down the list of comments, you'll see some interesting conversations I got into with various folks that shed more light on my takes -- the main one being "how these kids ended up." Again, we're all in the process of "ending up" and will all end up in the ground, unless we get cremated. If some metal kid manages to make a tolerable adult life for himself, I'm happy to hear that. I've seen way too many mind fucks as an adult -- most involving money and status -- to give anyone too rough a time about where they are in life. I'm not sold on the idea of turning myself into a money machine, which, when you peel away the layers, are what a lot of people want from life. After awhile, you live your life however you want and stop worrying about how other people perceive you. At least if you're smart -- and I'm willing to wager there were plenty of smart metal heads ... but only if they had Rush in their tape collection.
AAIS, or whatever your real name is, you really need a hug. Can I give you a cyber hug? You sound like you really need one!!
At the time I wrote that article, I first floated the idea to two different print publications. Both editors loved the concept, but straight up, wouldn't let me go for more than 1,000 words (the above article is much larger than that), much less have that many pictures to illustrate the point. After this article appeared here, both editors checked in to say they regretted not being able to do the article.
But the reality is a lot of stuff I did and do on the internet, I couldn't possibly do in a print publication -- the main issue being space considerations. It's to the Leisure Suit editors' credit that they saw I knew what I was doing and gave me free reign to do whatever the hell I wanted.
If you or anyone else who responds to this article can point me in the direction of a "respectable&qu ot; print article that gets anywhere near the level of this article in terms of analyzing the video, holding debatable opinions on it, or looking at the issues at play beneath the clownish exterior of the video, please let me know -- I would love to read it.
I'll try to check in more regularly, but can't guarantee anything. I'm just amazed that people are still responding to this article six years on.
Now, where's that hug, pookey bear?
Name: John Booyah
Subject: good stuff
-- Jan 10, 2007 at 2:12AM
Wow. You broke this down as if it were Citizen Kane. I've seen this doc's various clips throughout the years, but didn't realize it was from one source. Having seen this tonight in its entirety for the first time, it brought back a lot of memories of burnouts, Judas Priest, and ugly skank hair. Thank God I kind of side-stepped all that in my middle and high school years.
Your aritcle had me in stitches, but I have to agree with other posts that it was kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. Who cares though....good cruel jokes about 80's metalhead trash is good cruel jokes about 80's metalhead trash. Insanely funny article though. Thank you.
Name: A.A.I.S.
Subject: Condescending
-- Dec 14, 2006 at 3:10PM
My my. What an arrogant, condescending and disdainful little diatribe. Must be nice to have everyone else in the world so thoroughly figured out.
But that begs the obvious question: Why doesn't the entire world know about the Smartest Man Mr. Repsher Knows -- Mr. Repsher Internet Rock Journalist? (*scoff* "Rock Journalist." Now THERE'S an oxymoron if there ever was one...)
I mean this guy is so on top of his game doing Really Sooper Dooper Important Stuff like, ooooooo, let's bust on suburban kids and their canned rebellion (such an original idea -- wow, that's NEVER been done before).
I mean, in his own mind at least, he should be winning Pulitzers while the masses scrape and bow to him, not as some two-bit next-to-anonymous scribe on a website most people will never have heard of in their lives.
Right? I mean, this is some seriously important stuff. HE lets you know. He's telling everyone else who they are and what they think and where they're going. THAT is important! He's incisive! He's visceral! He's perceptive! He's bitter! He has not an ounce of a sense of humor -- ESPECIALLY about Himself! He has eclectic musical tastes! (yes, another first for a "Rock Journalist") He thinks Dokken was lame but Eddie Money is cool! HE's been to college! You haven't! You are a blue-collar drone! HE gets to sit in Starbuck's head down with the furrowed brow (to indicate to all the other patrons His furious brain activity), think all this utterly original stuff up about canned teen rebellion, and tippy-tap it into His laptop! And YOU are obviously not grateful enough that He deigns to come here and show all us Great Unwashed the light, the truth and the way. You know, So Let It Be Written, So Let It Be Done. And you are not listening. Hence His copious wrath you see here.
So listen up you hoi polloi! Mr. Repsher has spoken about your canned rebellion and whether or not if you are doomed to a lifetime of menial drudgery.
As opposed to him, Mr. Wildly Successful Internet Rock Journalist. So be grateful. It's the least you could do.
Name: V
Subject: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Sep 19, 2006 at 6:08PM
Fabulous, very funny.
But three points of contention
1 His intro about these kids hating their lives and their futures says more about the author then his subjects
2 the parking lot negro is NOT the wisest man in the place
3 Metal fans do not hate the Ramones and certainly do not equate them with Barry Manilow,
still, some classic comments in here.!
Name: Debbie
Subject: My homepage
-- May 17, 2006 at 7:11PM
Good design!
http://qwvtfpqg. com/stja/lybf.html | http://ttjlhsry.com/ rhwg/jzbe.html
Name: Vicky
Subject: My homepage
-- May 17, 2006 at 7:09PM
Great work!
[url=http://qwvt fpqg.com/stja/lybf.h tml]My homepage[/url] | [url=http://tmefyznq .com/xoba/xkwy.html] Cool site[/url]
Name: Mach1Stang
Subject: Funny but not all true
-- May 14, 2006 at 10:06PM
Hey man, I think its a blast from the past. I was one of those kids. I still love metal music and in fact I just saw Priest last fall...although this time I was straight. I grew out of the party scene and have two kids and a "normal" life. It was a way of life for us back then. It was a way to be ourselves and have a hell of a lot of fun while doing it. So relax man....... most of us turned out okay. :o) It's just hard to be believe it was so many years ago.
Name: Dangerous Bastard
Subject: Stupid typo
-- Mar 12, 2006 at 9:23PM
Where I said "You think I can see through this shit" I meant to say "cant".
Name: Dangerous Bastard
Subject: "Dimestore Steve Perry"
-- Mar 12, 2006 at 9:21PM
Dont knock the so-called "Dimestore Steve Perry". I thought he was hilarious! These are just regular people having a good time, whats wrong with that? And who gives a damn about "Gram of Dope's" accent? I mean, OBSESS MUCH?? Jesus Christ. As for all this "tought provoking" shit, this is HEAVY METAL PARKING LOT!! I feel sorry for anybody who tries to analyse or intellectualise this shit. Its just people having a few beers, and having a good time. yOu want to think? Read Shakespeare. What do you think, you can play HMPL backwards and find the meaning of life?? I mean, what a redundant article! No offence intended (offence is merely a by-product in this case :P) but it pisses me off when people alalyse and intellectualise things that speak for themselves. I mean, look at the poor sap who relentlessly quizzed Bob Dylan about the meaning of the shirt he's wearing on the cover of "Highway 61 Revisited" in the recent Dylan documentary. HOW FUCKING SAD! I have to say, as hilarious and side-splitting as HMPL is, this artical is far more laughable. I GOT A GREAT IDEA! Who dont we write a new artical, analysing the insecurities of people with the desperate need to intellectualise that which does not warrant any real intellectual analysis (YEAH, WARRANT ROCK!!). People who subconsciously scream to the world: "I'm ever so smart, really I am!!". You think I can see through this shit?
Well, this post has turned out far more angry than I had intended it to sound. I guess I just want to paint myself as a rebellious outsider...
Name: Jacob
Subject: True Poser
-- Feb 1, 2006 at 9:36AM
To SHUT UP:
He is a TOTAL poser... through and through, even beyond the music. You've obviously not seen the new DVD. He lives in the DC/VA suburbs in a house that has approximately 5 feet of front yard and the neighbors' homes are 10 feet to the left and right of his house. You could also see the emblem of his BMW in his unfinished garage. Point is, that he is trying to live the upper middle or lower upper class lifestyle without obviously being able to afford it. BMW was leased or probably has a 6 year loan on it. The new house I'm guessing was bought at around $400,000 with a no downpayment APR mortgage behind it. He's a poser. If he really had money, then he would have moved into the more affluent naighborhoods where you get at least a 1/2 acre of land and can't see from your kitchen the text of the book the neighbor is reading. Notice his wife in the background (I'm assuming it's his wife)? She looks like she needs gastric bypass. Not being able to find a hot woman at his midlife age indicates poserism since any attractive women his age would want a stable person to settle down with. That "Where Are They Now" piece was so telling. Regarding your music comment, well, you don't need to search for new hard rock music. What is wrong with listening to your existing collection? Only a poser, perhaps one like yourself, feels like they need to always listen to the newest music or nothing at all?
Name: SHUT UP
Subject: SHUT UP
-- Jan 31, 2006 at 12:04AM
Can you blame him? Todays rock music sucks beyond belief! I would be listening to country music too if I were him. Not everybody has the luxury of searching hours and hours for good music being released today. It is out there but one has to search really hard to find it. It is not going to be on the radio. Some people have to hold down a full time job for Christ's sake. So take all of the above into consideration before you call anybody a poser. The cost of living in the DC/MD/VA metro area is not cheap. Especially if one wants to live in a decent area.
Name: Jacob
Subject: get the new DVD!
-- Jan 28, 2006 at 1:02AM
I just watched the new DVD. Excellent! Two devil-horns up! There is a HMPL alumni section on the DVD where they interview "The Reston Girl", "Statutory Dave", and "Zebraman" in the present day. I won't give it away, but one of these characters was a total poser and listens only to country music now!
Name: Jacob
Subject: DVD
-- Jan 25, 2006 at 2:44PM
I just ordered the DVD via the producers' main page located at http://www.heavymeta lparkinglot.net
Name: Steve
Subject: Where do I get it?
-- Jan 24, 2006 at 11:21AM
Mara,
Where can I get a copy of the anniversary DVD? You mean the reunion stuff, right?
Name: Mara Salvatrucha Stoner
Subject: 20th Anniversary DVD
-- Jan 24, 2006 at 4:53AM
The anniversary DVD has been released. They managed to locate a few of the people and guess what, the ones they located turned out to be normal people living normal lives.
While everybody on here is wondering how all of the white kids turned out 20 years later... MS-13 has quietly grown in numbers and in popularity over the past 2 decades. They are one of the few lasting contributions from metal still in existence today. The media is obsessed with them.
Name: Steve
Subject: Arrogance
-- Jan 24, 2006 at 1:31AM
What bothers me most about this is the arrogance of the non-metal fans. I could write a book about it. We didn't give a shit if you thought we were "white trash." We didn't want any part of your world. Jocks, academics, hippies, punks, goat ropers, they seemed just as stupid and absurd to us as metal-fans seemed to them. They still do seem that way to me. You may think we were a joke... But while you were studying, playing sports, and getting elected to student government, we were f$%^&#$ your girlfriends. Many of us spent 1984-1990 having more fun that most of you arrogant non-fans could ever imagine. Many of us did it our own way and are still very successful today. You'd be surprised. If having group sex on acid while listening to 'The Wall' is something you think might be fun, you should have partied with us in the 80s. If you don't think it would be fun, just shut up cause you won't ever get Heavy Metal, you'll always just snicker about us over your wine and cheese.
Name: Andy Bittner
Subject: Geography
-- Jan 16, 2006 at 5:09PM
I really don't know how I remained unaware of HMPL until today, but I love it! I admit I never really was a part of the whole "Heavy Metal", headbanging thing in the 1980s and the closest I ever came to a metal show at the Capital Centre was when a badly mismatched White Snake opened for the, very electronic, Jethro Tull "A" tour show. (Frankly, for me, the term "heavy metal" will always apply to the early 70's bands, like Deep Purple and Uriah Heap, for which the term was originally coined.) Nonetheless, I attended many, many rock concerts at the Crap Centre (to people actually interested in listening to musical performances, the Capital Centre was a barn, acoustically-speakin g), and HMPL brought back fond memories of many afternoons spent concert tailgating in the arena's parking lot. Clearly, HMPL shows the lot before a heavy metal show, which is mostly reflected in the clothing and hairstyles, but the drugs, alcohol, inebriation, and screaming rowdiness were present at every rock concert I attended at the Capital Centre, notably more so than at other local venues. Whether it was Foghat, Yes, Boston, Van Halen, Uriah Heap, Blue Oyster Cult, Jethro Tull, The Who, Rush or The Police, the clothing styles and the band names on the baseball-style t-shirts might've changed, but, had the filmmakers brought their camera into the Cap Centre parking lot at any of those shows, the end result would have been surprisingly (or not so surprisingly!) similar. There were always screaming groups of totally trashed fans that would be willing to scream support for their favorite band, or wave their beers and bongs at the camera; and while there wouldn't have been as many of the heavy metal "horns" hand signs, just as many people would’ve been flicking the bird at the lens. As far as Mr. Repsher's review of the film goes, it is mostly right on, except he has made the mistake that another yakker, calling himself "Rory Gallagher", has already noted. I don't know where Mr. Repsher was raised, but it seems he may have mistaken the D.C. suburbs for the suburbs of some more industrial/factory city, like Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. Perhaps that is because the filmmakers found and focused on so many fans with thick, Balti-moron and Glen Burn-out accents. Baltimore is a town that still revels in the whole heavy metal thing (HAMMERJACKS!!! YEAH!!), and there would've a disproportionately large Baltimore contingent at any metal show in the DC area. However, most of the kids in that video are actually the children of relatively affluent, middle to upper-middle class households, like my younger brother and most of his friends. If I spent enough time and energy scrutinizing HMPL, I’m sure I’d eventually spot my brother or his friends, most of whom have grown up to be affluent and successful businesspeople. It’s just that DC isn't Allentown, PA, with it's factory ethos and culture-starved youth yearning to escape a failing economy in some industrial backwater, far from it. Most of the kids in HMPL are the children of people who were working for or running the U.S. government and otherwise overseeing the business of our nation, and while places like Reston, Virginia were definitely not Mayberry RFD, nor were they lower-middle class, rust-belt, dead-end suburbs. Reston, Virginia is a carefully planned, middle to upper-middle class, bedroom enclave in the northern Virginia suburbs of D.C. Ultimately, I think, if we could ever survey the population who attended this Judas Priest show, Mr. Repsher would probably be very surprised at just how many of those heavy metal burn-outs turned out to be upstanding, or even successful members of our society. Lastly, I also want to agree with Yakker, "Dirty Punk" who notes that punk was not a moot point in '86 and then lists a bunch of punk acts who were notable in that era. My one comment would be to note that, while generally correct in his observation, the "Dirty Punk" is clearly not from the DC area. I know this because, if he were from the DC area, he would’ve cited a completely different list of bands. In '86, DC was actually a hub to the whole, international punk culture (something any Balti-moron metalhead would've been aware of and considered to be a really bad thing). DC was home to Inner Ear Studio, and Dischord Records, and spawned many "successful&quo t; (if you could call it that!) punk acts like Minor Threat, Scream, Government Issue, Youth Brigade, Marginal Man and the seminal punk/reggae act, Bad Brains. In the end, my point is that heavy metal fans in most other parts of the world could probably get away with calling most of those attending a 1986 Priest concert in DC, Heavy Metal poseurs. Most of these kids weren’t nearly as hardcore as they seemed, and were actually using their parents' considerable wealth to put on as objectionable a persona as possible, in order to try to get the attention of their parents, who were otherwise too busy trying to be important in Washington D.C., capital of the
Name: juri
Subject: nightline 86-87?
-- Jan 5, 2006 at 9:06AM
What I find really strange was a comment on a nightline program on metal kids many years ago in the mid 80's. The narrator stated that- "metalheads did not fit in with the popular crowd, didnt participate in athletics and didnt belong to any school clubs." The two latter points find it's strength in a kind of factualism that cannot be denied to a degree, while knowingly placing blame on those in a state of non association. Perhaps this has to do with holding on to some archaic american cultural attitudes,(you dont do sports?..whats rong with you boy!? not enthusiastic about school clubs? akin to:Your'e not patriotic?!! etc)Of course there was allways at that time a certain kind of accusatory speculation as to why someone was a metalfan;hence the remark about fitting in with popular people served as as great fodder in explaining to the public why these people were who they were. I'll never forget that wanker reporter on tv looking deep into the eyes of this teenage girl who was the archetypical embodiment of the do good girl telling the reporter that the metal kids only needed self esteem and social encouragement! wow! In those days seeing this kind of rhetoric being tossed around I didnt know whether to laugh or cry. Tipper Gore was also involved at that time trying to convince the american public that if they didnt ban metal soon there would be a lot of dead kids from suicide, murder etc. I had finally come to the conclusion as I grew older that the society that was behind the lense of this socialogical observation was infact extremely arrogant, and that in this state of arrogance could never see itself as as it trully was..
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: My thoughts
-- Jan 2, 2006 at 8:27AM
Er, uh, Stacey, using your junior-high formula, shouldn't I be the snob, as opposed to "everyone else" being the snob?
Bitter about metalheads? Guess again! All my metal-head associates in high school had inferiority complexes regarding the "cool kids" (the jocks, the cheerleaders, the eggheads, etc.). Frankly, I had a foot in both camps -- I liked sports, got good grades, and also simply knew enough people who were into drugs and metal, and stayed friends with them, that this was how I went about my high-school days. I wasn't "mad and angry at everyone" -- nor am I now. (I'm not even mad at the kids in this video, but I'm not sure if you're mentally equipped enough to sense that.) You're projecting your own feelings onto me here, I imagine because I dared to look under the surface, something that gives you trouble.
About the only place you can find evidence to back up your statement "can't understand the need for teens in the world to gather in one place and act like, uh, teenagers," is when I note that the kids from Reston (i.e., Mayberry RFD) were probably the scumbags hanging out in front of the local convenience store. And I do hate that sort of shit -- then and now. It's stupid. Get a fucking hobby. Do something. Hanging out every night in front of the fucking 7-11 (or anywhere) doing nothing is bullshit in my book -- always was, always will be.
And what does "act like teenagers" imply? What stereotype do you have in mind as to how all teenagers act? Does everyone get high? Listen to metal? No. The thing is, these kids weren't "acting like teenagers" -- they were mimicking what they considered the taboos of adulthood -- smoking, drinking, sex, etc. You'll have to tell my how teenagers "act" -- an anxious world awaits, Stacy, since you're dropping pearls of wisdom like "it's just teenage fun."
Unfortunately, I do know where some of these people ended up, and you don't want to know about it. (Actually, a handful of these "kids" I know have "ended up" dead, through various drug and alcohol misadventures in their adulthood. The others haven't "ended up" just yet. "Ended up" is how teenagers see the world, because we're all going to "end up" in the ground one day.)
How old are you?
Name: Stacy
Subject: My thoughts
-- Jan 1, 2006 at 11:02PM
Oh my god you have the most negative attitude! I think you are overanalyzing what is basically the typical youth..or at least a very large subculture of it..of 1986. What are they supposed to be-A bunch of scientists? You sound like someone who spent their youth analyzing why you were'nt included and now youre bitter about it. If you can't understand the need for teens in the world to gather in one place and act like,uh,teenagers then you probably never did. I knew kids like you. So mad and angry at everyone,"the cool kids",those "fuckin snobs"..everyon e was a snob. Stop analyzing it negatively. Its just teenage fun. As for where these people ended
up..I dont know and neither do you. Period. And at their age in this video I hope they werent too worried about it.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: my thoughts
-- Dec 30, 2005 at 9:05AM
Look at it this way. Jordan Hoffman (editor at Leisuresuit.net) went to see an Iron Maiden tribute band at a bar in Queens earlier this year and plans to do so again. It's only a matter of degrees.
Name: HMPL fan
Subject: my thoughts
-- Dec 29, 2005 at 5:14PM
William...great article and your perspective is thought provoking..I enjoyed it. HMPL is truly a classic and I love to hear what people think of it whether I agree or not. The video means different things to different people for sure. I must say though that I'm now 40 years old and went to Ozzfest last summer AND LOVED IT!!! Maybe I need help!!
Name: Bob Ov Death
Subject: Zeeb
-- Nov 10, 2005 at 9:45PM
i bet zebraboy had a sister or something that listened to punk or else why would he have mentioned The Dicks? or "Circle Shit" which probably was Circle Jerks...and 1986 was a good year to be into punk and thrash...
Name: samjordison.blogspot .com
Subject: Well,
-- Oct 5, 2005 at 5:18AM
I hope all those people are dead now. their existence otherwise would just be too depressing to think about.
Name: Dirty Punk
Subject: "Punk belongs on Mars, man"
-- Jul 8, 2005 at 11:46AM
Great review!!!
But there is one thing I want to point out. As a life long punk fan, I have to say punk was not a "moot point" in 1986. In fact 1986 saw releases from many big punk bands. Dead Kennedy's, Dag Nasty, Cro-Mags, Circle Jerks, The Ramones, just to name a few. Though I do agree that kid was most likely thinking of new wave.
Name: Class of 1985
Subject: HMPL 19th Anniversary
-- May 3, 2005 at 10:15PM
Happy 19th anniversary to all! I hope everybody out there is doing well. To all the critics in cyberspace you only live once so stop hating on the next man having a good time. Although many out there may not know this, metal is still alive and well regardless of what the radio and MTV may try to brainwash you into thinking. There numerous metal sites on the net dedicated to the past, present and the future. Many excellent up and coming bands as well. Many have their own websites. The internet has become a powerful tool. No longer will MTV and corporate radio be allowed to have complete and absolute control. The pendulum is about to sway the other way against the corporate giants, bankrupting and placing them out of the business forever. The mainstream music scene is flooded with garbage right now. Corporate hired negro thugs thuggin for their suit and tie masters. 3 chord whine EMO fag rockers and their 14 and 15 year old shaggy haired demographics, together they have turned the mainstream into a musical landscape of disposable bands. Major labels lowering themselves to the lowest common denominator in order to turn a profit. Very unfortunate situation for all of the upcoming generation of youth who will have to be lead in the right direction and away from all of the pop and mainstream bullshit of today. The internet is a nightmare for all of the major labels who have been assholes to very very very many people in the past. Their time is coming and they know it. Regardless of whether metal ever receives any attention again from MTV or radio again, metal will thrive in the underground forever while picking up millions of new fans along the way.
Name: Quic
Subject: Re: HMPL
-- Apr 5, 2005 at 4:23PM
At some points you may be discussing the truth. Yes, artists will get replaced and find that they have less or no support from the music industry which they are working in. However, I disagree with your phrasing of the problem of Hip-Hop demographics. Not all Hip Hop glamourizes the types of imagery you have outlined. Gangsta Rap may have excessive amounts of the urban thug lifestyle, but at the same time, sub genres such as Street Hop promote enjoyment and socializing. You have described the Hip Hop demographic as a demographic that is easily impressionable and a demographic that does not have the ability to reason, 'what is right?' and 'what is wrong?'. I am dissapointed with the way conveyed your concluding statement: "Lets just hope that many of today's current hip hop demographic are smart enough to realize this before that actually happens." Surely the phrase 'smart enough to realize' is being used out of place. Why are you speaking so low of this demographic?
Name: Truth Speaker
Subject: HMPL
-- Apr 1, 2005 at 3:02AM
During my short time on this earth I have observed many many things about the music industry and MTV. The most important observation is how these corporations constantly
eliminate demographics in an attempt to sell something new to each subsequent upcomng generation.
For example in the 1970's it was dance music and clubbing. In the 1980's it was heavy metal. For much of the 1990's through right now it has been hip hop.
There are other examples I could have given but I have limited them to those 3 for the sake of this discussion.
Anyway kids/teens eventually grow up and have to enter the real world and start having to face adult problems.
Problems such as getting a real job and paying bills etc... As soon as this occurs they are automatically an expired demographic as far as MTV and the music industry is concerned. Expired in terms of disposable income. These former kids/teens turn into adults and more than likely have more important thing to do with their money than buy cd's and albums.
Obviously the industry and MTV recognize this and they are constantly doing research on the next incoming demographic. MTV does not want to sell the same tired trend to the younger brothers and sisters of the previous demographic.
My point here is that many of the music artists from the past have fallen victim to the expired demographic syndrome. The music industry always moves on to something else to focus their efforts and adertising campaigns on. By doing so many of the artists from the previous effort are left in the dust. Many of these artists do however go on to successful independent careers years after they have been removed from the in dustry spotlight. Unfortunately though there are also many artists that do not. They are percieved by the public to have fallen off. Many former successful artists find it difficult to continue and call it quits due to the lack of major label and radio support.
Eventually the music industry and MTV will move away from hip hop and direct the maajority of their focus somewhere else. What I am concerned about is how the current hip hop demographic will proseper as adults once they have been eliminated. After all this current demographic has been fed violence, gangs, thug imagery, black death, murder, improper english etc... as being cool. These activities can result in far more serious consequences than anything the metalhead demographic was industry fed as a teenager back in the 1980's
I am positive if somebody were to do a documentary right now about the hip hop fans and look back on it just 10 years from now the outcomes of many of their lives will be far more serious than "still living at home with mommy and daddy at age 30" or drug and alcohol abuse.
Lets just hope that many of today's current hip hop demographic are smart enough to realize this before that actually happens.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Dokken?!
-- Feb 22, 2005 at 7:55PM
"Orthodox" metalheads? Were they wearing yarmulkas? "Yawn" regarding your version of real metal. I'm sure we could dig up other metalheads who would come up with bands going around at the time you don't even know about -- been here before with other types of music, and it never ends, until you find a basement with five kids hanging around listening to a homemade tape, and that's as underground as it gets, and we're all lesser beings for not knowing it. Woe is us.
Kudos on your career. Had you stated that you were sucking cock in the parking lot of a Wawa's Food Market in Cherry Hill, NJ to support a methamphetamine habit, it wouldn't make any difference to me. Why should anyone else care? Honestly, not to insult you. But we don't give out medals for living normal lives. It's not a miracle.
Name: stillMetalish
Subject: Dokken?!
-- Feb 22, 2005 at 5:27PM
Clearly many of the commenters and the original author don't know dick about metal.
I hung out with total redneck "orthodox" metalheads back in 1986, and a Dokken shirt would have gotten your ass kicked in that crowd, because it was fake co-opted "poser" (poseur) metal.
Contrary to the author's assertion, metal was VERY underground then, underground enough that he didn't name any of the real metal bands of the era (Slayer, Venom, Mercyful Fate, etc).
PS - I was just like the kids in the film, and now I am 36 with a successful career working in advertising, a lovely wife, and a wonderful little boy who loves the Ramones. I haven't seen Slayer in about a year, and I miss them.
So there :-p
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: your response
-- Feb 14, 2005 at 8:45AM
Dokken is forgettable swill -- if you weren't a teenager at the time (and most likely a female one with a bare-chested Don Dokken poster on your wall ... where Shaun Cassidy previously held court), then there's just no way you're going to get into that band. No one's going to go back and say, "My God, we now realize Dokken was the legitimate heir to the Sabbath metal throne." Ditto Ratt, Cinderella, Winger, etc.
You'd be surprised how well acts like Adams and Money do when they tour. On their own, they get by doing theatres and large clubs -- and most likely larger county fairs. I wouldn't knock that way of life -- they probably get paid pretty well. And if they team up -- like REO Speedwagon, Styx and Journey have done -- they sell out arenas wherever they go. Package tours have always been the status quo for old bands -- a good concept, too. But now we're starting to see that even NEW bands need package tours -- they can't make it on their own. It's a rare act these days that can sell out a place like Madison Square Garden on its own. Whereas a band like INXS or Ratt could easily sell out a few nights in their prime.
Eddie Van Halen -- last interview I saw him do a few years ago, he looked like an angry middle-aged housewife with a bad shag haircut. He'll always be haunted by dumping Roth.
"Metal was underground"? I'm not so sure about that. All these bands (Ratt, Dokken, Priest, Metallica, Leppard, Slayer, Crue, Megadeth, all the hair metal band, etc.) had major-lable deals with singles and albums in the Top 40. They were huge in their time. Some may have started underground, like Megadeath, but got big, fast.
I know there's always some type of metal scene bubbling under that I'm totally unaware of (Swedish death metal?), but, no, in the 80s, metal ruled, like no time before or since.
Re: work. I've found that no matter what you do with your life, whether you find a dream job or just punch a clock, you better love the simple act of working, otherwise it's always going to be a drag, no matter what you do. People who understand this can live a good life under any circumstances. There's more to life than anything you do for a living.
Name: still metal
Subject: Re: your response
-- Feb 14, 2005 at 12:36AM
Okay, you have greatest hits collections of BOTH Brian Adams and Eddie Money for their '80s cheese appeal,' but you categorize Dokken as 'fogettable swill?' As far as 80s cheese appeal goes, Dokken wrote the book on that! But music is subjective, and like I said I rarely diss others' musical tastes considering mine is so broad. But Brian Adams is skating on the edge. ; )
I'll have to check out that Metallica documentary. Calls to mind an interview I saw with Eddie Van Halen about ten or so years ago, he was newly sober, and came across as an unpleasant, bitter, angry dry drunk in his interview. The whole time I was thinking, 'dude, go get yourself a bottle of Jack, 'cause your 12-stepping is buying you nothing but more misery.'
Please don't think I'm looking down my nose at blue-collar work. Done plenty in my lifetime. Can't claim that I worked in an actual factory, but a few years ago I did a two and a half year stint at a call center - pretty much the sitting-behind-a-des k equivalent of a factory job. In fact, my cubicle-mate not so affectionately referred to our place of employment as 'the suck factory.' And that was a pretty apt description.
I worked those jobs because they provided a living for my family, and lots of my coworkers, too. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's perfectly honorable. But we all bitched about it, and knew there was more to life than sitting in a cubicle with a headset on for eight hours a day, hence my 'divine dissatisfaction.' That's what prompted me to get out.
You're absolutely right - emotions - and attitude - set the stage for what you do with your life. A big part of that, for me anyway, is taking a look at what 'everybody else is doing' and deciding if I really want to do that. That was the point of my original post; the radio airwaves in the eighties were filled with the likes of Brian Adams, Eddie Money, and yes, The Hooters. Metal was underground, much like REM and The Talking Heads were at the same time. Now, Ozzfest just sold out bunches of their playdates this summer, featuring none other than a reunited Judas Preist complete with Rob Halford. Hell, David Byrne is still touring to sold out halls. But, really, how big of a hall could Brian Adams sell out? I dunno, maybe if he was a double bill with Eddie Money...
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: your response
-- Feb 13, 2005 at 8:48AM
Woops -- got cut off. Here's the rest:
What negates that? As you've probably seen yourself -- a strong family background, friends who aren't honed in on a downward spiral, some type of support system that provides a sense of security or a base to work from. If a kid doesn't have that, and I don't care what type of music he listens to, he's more than likely fucked ... and very smart or lucky if he isn't.
Emotions are a choice -- not a forced condition. I've seen people with every opportunity in the world -- coming from wealthy families, opportunities of all sorts galore, etc. -- end up trying to destroy themselves. I've seen people with nothing in the world and no reason to go on turn their lives into something good. And the only difference is perception.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: your response
-- Feb 13, 2005 at 8:41AM
I got greatest hits collections for both Brian Adams and Eddie Money. Why? For Adams, I always liked the song "Cuts Like a Knife" and something like "Summer of 69" still has maximum 80s cheese appeal. Money has one great song -- "Baby Hold On" -- and a bunch like "Shakin" and "I Think I'm in Love" that I can still listen to. Basically, solid pop music. Hardly a huge fan of either. But if I saw their stuff in used bins for $3.00 -- like I did with both these guys -- I just might buy it.
Right now, I'm listening to the Andrews Sisters and Bing Crosby -- no relation to Robbin.
It sounds like you going about your life like a normal adult was just a matter of the chickens coming home to roost - and this is good. Because imagine yourself living your life now like a 17-year-old metalhead getting wasted at every opportunity and having zero responsibilities. It wouldn't work.
A nice cross comparison -- I just picked up the DVD of the new Metallica documentary, Some Kind of Monster. And it makes for an interesting watch. Their basic problem is they're still walking around with the mindsets of hard-partying, disconnected metal kids in their lates teens/early 20s, and at least in Hetfield's case, starting to grasp that he can't have any sort of real life as an adult living this way. Top that with the fact that these guys are responsible for an ongoing multi-million dollar corporation that they're responsible for, and probably dozens of people depend on them directly for a livelihood.
What do they do? Get therapy, with often laughable results, especially if you've been around therapy-loving folk (which is a given in New York) and immediately recognize the queasy phrases and way of putting things that demonstrate "enlightenment. " Still ... these guys were fucked up to the point that they were going to tank the whole band and probably sink into all sorts of more serious mental and financial trouble.
Are they any lesser as a band for recognizing this and getting help? I don't think so -- then again, I think most metal from the 90s onwards, with Metallica and Nirvana serving as guides, has turned into whining, mewling, "Daddy doesn't love me" tripe that really isn't that far off from the type of emotional insights the band seeks out with a therapist. Any type of music that has lyrics based on constant complaining and focusing on the darkness of life, I tend to get tired of -- even a band like Pink Floyd gets on my nerves in this sense. Basically, I've seen in my own life that people with this kind of focus are shitbirds (i.e., good for nothing) or people who are just off mentally and need to get help.
And it's sad that we're training kids to feel this way all the time through things like music, instead of enjoying their youth. Being a kid is troubling enough without heaping all this cultural negativity on top of problems that exist naturally. How are you going to raise your kids?
Re: Sabbath. Look at it this way. Ozzy dodged what he perceived as a bad way of life -- factory life in Birmingham. He replaced it ... with years of drug abuse, broken relationships, and his career on the verge of collapse a few times over because he couldn't function like a normal human being. Both of his kids have been treated for drug abuse.
Is this preferable to having a factory job?
I've done factory work, and I can tell you that most guys I met weren't fuck-ups. They were decent guys, quietly going about their lives, doing what had to be done to support their families. When I point out that the kids in HMPL see this way of life as a downward spiral of sorts, the real truth is that the kids are responisble for the course of their lives, and they recognize that whatever they do, negativity, drugs/alcohol and a sense of no-future are going to be part of it. It's a mental state they've been encouraged to enter via their taste in style/music.
The reality of factory life really isn't that harsh -- at least these days as compared to Victorian sweatshops or coal mines. You're probably not going to get killed on the job, working conditions will be tolerable and the worst you'll have to deal with will probably be an asshole boss and/or coworkers who don't give a fuck about anything and never grew up. Of course, the worst is job security -- the fact that your company could roll up shop any day and move to Mexico for cheaper labor. But guess what? Everyone has that fear now -- blue or white collar.
I think that's one important point I missed in the article. The reality is these kids would carry around a sense of doom no matter what they did with their lives. Give them the perfect job, and sooner or later, they'll fuck it up. It's the nature of this "rebellion" ; they're being fed. What negates that? As you've probably seen yourself -- a strong family background, friends who aren't honed in on a downward spiral, some type of support system that provides a sense of security or a base to work
Name: still metal
Subject: your response
-- Feb 12, 2005 at 4:39PM
Well.....sane is a judgement call, but thanks for the kind words anyway!
Hmmm. The Hooters, huh? Who knew? Okay, I'll give you that one William. In my post, delete 'The Hooters' and replace with 'Brian Adams and Eddie Money.' Does that work better? Shock me out of my gourd and tell me you've been sampling mp3s by these 'artists.'
Sounds like we have more in common musically and otherwise than I had thought originally. While a few of my metalhead friends did turn out okay, I've got to admit we came from a middle to upperclass neighborhood, so we had an advantage.
And in answer to your question, 'what are they rebelling against?' Well...I think you answered your own question in your piece. Many of them were driving headlong into a future they knew they would despise. They'd lived with their drunk mom and seen dad coming home all hours of the night from his factory job and knew that's where they were headed. In fact, that's the origin of metal itself. Its beginnings can be traced, arguably, to Black Sabbath, who emerged from the dystopian blue-collar Birmingham, England in the late Sixties. They were blue-collar all the way. In fact, guitarist Tony Iommi lost his fingertips in an industrial accident which almost ended their careers before they even released their first album.
That said, I can appreciate what you said about rebellion being more than just dropping a few tabs of acid and hanging out in a parking lot before a concert. But, really, what have they got better to do? ; )
Seriously, though, rebellion in my case and others I have known that have successfully made the transition from metalhead to, um, regular person was more like what I call 'divine dissatisfaction.' I knew that I didn't want to be pigeonholed into a job where I'd sit at a desk and oversee the making of widgets or some shit and spend my life punching a clock and making someone else rich. So my rebellion took on a healthy form (eventually - don't think I didn't waste my share of time and brain cells.) But the point is that it is possible to channel your dissatisfaction into more productive ends. You may not destroy the source of what you're rebelling against, as you said, but you can at least see the game for what it is, and choose to play it on your own terms.
Thanks for your thoughtful response and I'll be checking back, eagerly anticipating the sequel, of course!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: My .02
-- Feb 6, 2005 at 9:14AM
No! A sane, aging metalhead who doesn't feel the need to 12-step me! THE END IS NEAR!
Have to disagree on the Hooters -- the two main guys in that band, Rob Bazilian and Eric Hyman -- have made a nice bit of coin for themselves throughout the 90s as producers and studio musicians. I've seen pictures -- they no longer have foo-foo MTV haircuts and seem to be doing all right for themselves. And for anyone from eastern Pennsylvania, like me, the Hooters were an institution long before they made it big in the mid-80s. They were a bit cheesy, but I can still listen to that stuff now.
You'd be hard-pressed to call bullshit on my musical tastes these days, because I listen to damn near everything, sooner or later. The past few years, I've gone through massive blues and country phases, learning a lot about two forms of music I shied away from for years. Thanks to MP3s, if I get into something, I usually know other people who can hit me up with a few MP3 disks containing hundreds of songs in a given genre, and I've never heard so much music in all my life as I have in the past few years. Right now, I'm getting into Big Band music (with mixed results, but some of it is great). Hell, Jordan Hoffman made me an MP3 disc of Iron Maiden -- and there's some good stuff on there. My point musically being that I care enough about good music that I can't possibly tie myself down with or overly identify with one genre. Back in the 80s, I really thew down with relatively unknown (at the time) indie bands like the Replacements, REM (recall seeing them with about 200 other people in a gym at Bucknell University), the Mekons, etc. That was about the only time in my life I threw down with a genre. Honestly? I can still listen to that stuff now but don't find myself listening to it all that much. Why? Because I know it all by heart, and there's so much more to listen to.
I'd have to take slight issue with the concept of metal kids painting themselves as outsiders. That's the thing with being an outsider in our society -- it's generally in a way that find you teaming up with thousands of other outsiders who look, dress, talk and act just like you do ... so how is that rebelling? Rebelling against what? You see, I think my problem with the way we're trained to see rebellion is that people, when pressed, don't know who or what they're rebelling against. They just like the idea of rebelling because it seems cool. But there is no identifiable target for their rebellion ... and if there was, dressing and acting a certain way, listening to a certain type of music, has absolutely nothing to do with true rebellion ... which would be attacking the authority figure you somehow find offensive and intrusive to your way of life. Attacking to the point where you eradicate it. I've never seen metalheads, nor anyone else for that matter, define exactly whom or what they're rebelling against and then take a set course of action that would result in the object of their rebellion being defeated.
Rebelling against the status quo? The norm? What is it? A teenage kid might look at you now and define you as such. But are you? No -- you're just just some guy trying to get by and life, make sense of it all, maybe have a family, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. You're not making some grand political statement by doing this. You're not "giving up" in any sense -- your'e simply doing what nearly everyone does eventually with their lives, and have done so for centuries.
But to some disconnected, snarling kid, you may represent some type of threatening authority figure ... who must be refuted in some sense by his musical taste, how he dresses, the way he speaks, etc.
Do you see what I'm getting at? What's going on here isn't rebelling. It's some strange, childish type of insecurity and self loathing masked as rebellion. And as I've pointed out ... look around. In yours and my day, it was painted as being a metalhead. For much of the 90s, and even now, it's getting into hiphop. It will be something else eventually. And the dumb part of it all? You will find millions of kids "rebelling" ; in the same way ... because, they don't want to admit it, it's a style they've been sold via MTV and instructed to use. And we've both learned as adults that sooner or later, you start living your life on your own terms, without assholes like MTV telling you how to dress and what to listen to.
I think when you cut through all the crap, that's the real heart of why I can't buy into all this stuff. Because you have example os true rebellion throughout history -- the Civil War, our country being born, storming the Bastille, etc. And it takes a lot more energy and costs a whole loe more than a concert t-shirt and some cheap drugs consumed in a parking lot before a concert.
Name: Still metal after all these years. But not THAT me
Subject: My .02
-- Feb 6, 2005 at 12:49AM
Aw, man, this movie takes me back! Very thoughtful and well-written article, too.
Yep, that was me all over and a lot of my friends, too. Although we turned out pretty much okay, there were a lot of our friends who are no longer with us due to accidents, overdoses, etc. And just like you said, William, a lot of them just flat never grew up. Some still live with their foks and sell pot. Sad. But of the folks in our little clique, one became an engineer, one is a manager at a major computer manufacturer (and - gasp! - a Republican!) I'm a business owner and pretty buttoned down now - wife and kids - the whole bit. I do b2b sales with other business owners, and of those I've gotten to know a little better, some of those also were metalheads as kids. Not bragging here - just pointing out that a teenage metalhead does not in all instances a trailer-dwelling wife-beater make.
Remember, metal was a counterculture phenomenon at the time. Most radio stations were too busy playing AOR like Bruce Springsteen, John Cougar, Genesis, and The Hooters. Remember the Hooters? Got tons of airplay, but where are they now?
A lot of metal fans were people who questioned authority and played by thier own rules. That translates into either ne-er do wells that end up boozing and drugging it up for the rest of thier lives - (and fuckin' shit up, man!,) OR people who refuse to be shoehorned into corporate America and turn into entrepreneurs like me.
Me, I still listen to metal. I don't know if metal will still be popular decades from now, but I have a feeling that metal will be 'classic rock' in a decade or two, much as Led Zeppelin or Jethro Tull is today. I'm certainly not a metalhead in the traditional sense anymore, but I still sincerely enjoy the music. The galloping bass of Iron Maiden's Steve Harris, Rob Halford's soaring vocals, and the double bass drum attack of Metallica's Lars Ulrich still get my blood pumping. And at my age, that's a good thing! To me, the music of today just doesn't have the same balls as some of this early metal. 'Kids these days just don't know how to rock.' Damn, I'm getting old.
That said, on my iPod, you'll find the obligatory Judas Priest, Accept, Scorpions and the Crue, but they peacefully coexist alongside Miles Davis, The Saturday Night Fever Soundtrack, 80s new wave classics such as Missing Persons, and Kim Wilde, even two CDs from Public Enemy. Oh, and there's also The Cult and The Clash, too. I have a pretty eclectic musical taste, so in that sense I'm not the traditional metalhead who wouldn't be caught dead listening to most of this stuff.
Musical tastes are completely subjective though, and your disdain for metal doesn't bother me at all, William. I enjoy a lot of the same stuff you do, but probably would think that some of the stuff you listen to is crap. So it goes - everybody dunks their Oreo cookie a little differently. I rarely diss other folks' musical tastes, especially considering I have New Order on my iPod.
Anyway, great article and anxiously awaiting the sequel. Rock on!
Name: Izzy the Cat
Subject: Thanks
-- Jan 31, 2005 at 4:14PM
William-
Thanks for your response. BTW, this page rocks!! I love your critique. Can't wait to see the new documentary.
-Izzy
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Where are they now?
-- Jan 31, 2005 at 3:13PM
Then you had better scroll down brother and recognize that these people are all wonderful, caring, truly thoughtful and beautiful human beings mugging for the camera and not hard-partying headbangers out to get wasted.
According the HMPL website, this will be one of the features of the updated documentary -- by the same token, they've had this description on the site for what seems like a year now, so I have to hope they're pulling it together soon.
For a refresher course, be sure to catch Parking Lot on trio, especially the Motorhead segment from Asbury Park, NJ. Might even be on their website as a Real Time video.
Name: Izzy the Cat
Subject: Where are they now?
-- Jan 31, 2005 at 2:59PM
Are they really going to do a new HMPL featuring some of the orginal cast members? This I'd like to see.
This is an observation anyone could make, but I feel like saying it: I knew the people in HMPL. I hung out with ones just like them in Southwest Philadelphia in the mid-80's.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: heavy metal parking lot
-- Jan 7, 2005 at 4:46PM
FYI, according to the HMPL website, the makers are putting together a DVD, packed with bonus features, one of which claims to be an update on various people who appeared in the original. I'm dying to see this, too.
Name: lance
Subject: heavy metal parking lot
-- Jan 7, 2005 at 4:39PM
i would like to see a documentary on where the people in the video are now. if anyone knows of the whereabouts of these people, fo r gods sake post it. i would also love to see the same thing done for decline of western civilization part II.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: In all honesty
-- Jan 1, 2005 at 8:34AM
H.S., if you notice, I've afforded the same amount of respect to respondents that they've afforded me. That's the beauty of allowing a writer to respond directly to readers - I can treat you the way you treat me. And some people just aren't ready for that.
Bottom line is, I really don't care how well or bad "metalheads&quo t; do in their lives. It's none of my business -- more importantly, it's none of my concern. This is just reality -- to claim anything more or less would be dishonest. Most aging metalheads I've known who've done well in their lives do so simply because when they became adults, something else kicked in. It's been my experience that life works like that, if you let it. It's also been my experience that it doesn't work if you end up clinging to childhood totems -- like overly identifying with a form of music that spoke to you as a dislocated teenager. That goes for any form of music. I wouldn't say it's pathetic, but there comes a point where you ought to move on.
Recall in HMPL those three kids, two girls and a guys, in their early 20s, lamenting how "young" and inexperienced the rest of the crowd is in the parking lot. Fast forward to 2004. You go to a Priest concert now, most people, I'm willing to bet, will be in their 30s and 40s. How does that compare to a bunch of 18-year-olds.
In short, something odd, and a little bit awful, has happened in our culture over the last 20 years in that adults aren't getting the message to move on from their childhood interests. They're getting the message to stay there forever, because it's still "cool." And maybe it is to them. But really, it's kind of silly and childish. Some adults get this -- some don't.
The guys who made HMPL recently did a series of shorter "parking lot" documentaries on various groups -- one of which was Motorhead, playing at the Stone Pony in Asbury Park, NJ. And you know what ... it was the EXACT SAME PEOPLE as in the Judas Priest (speaking of archetypes here, not actual audience members) documentary -- only a good bit older, fatter, less hair. There were some younger kids thrown in, too -- all of them subscribing to the same lame cultural totems ("I like to fuck shit up, man" ... right) that exist on the dark side of metal. The older ones ... were just people no sane person would want to spend more than five minutes with. (These documentaries have been showing recently on Trio Network, if you have it.)
To cling to some form of music you worshipped as a teenager as some sort of cultural identifier with you implies that as an adult, you really haven't moved on from that stage in your life and are somehow "stuck" there. Mainly because you enjoy it. The same way we all enjoyed a favorite blanket or stuffed animal as small children. And while most of us get past this shit, some of us don't, and if you're looking for the root of my disdain, there it is. Not to single out metalheads -- plenty of other people never grow up in society, too. But that seems to be a hallmark of our society now -- people who are adults age-wise, and in many other ways, but haven't yet moved on from their teenage world views and senses of taste.
But really, it's no skin off my nose. If I were a metalhead? Frankly, the article I've written would have no effect on me. It's just somebody's opinion, and I learned long ago, as an adult, to live with other people's opinions. My view of metalheads is based on personal experience -- whether we're talking the mid-80s or right now. Sorry if it doesn't subscribe to your apparent "everbody's all right" point of view towards your fellow fans. Come back in 20 years -- it would be nice if metal were just another cultural artificat, but I suspect people will still be listening to metal. And you'll have seen some strange, troubling things in those two decades. And some of the things I've touched on above will occur to you.
Name: Hispanic Metalhead
Subject: In all honesty
-- Dec 31, 2004 at 10:50PM
I have to say, you seem to take this hugely and unnecessarilly dim view of metalheads.
Why is this?
Granted not all of us become sucessful, but some do. (I don't consider myself successful yet, but I'm a youngin'.) There is some insight in what you say. Disenfranchised working class etc, looking to escape from the imminent financial doom they were set up for, but that is not the whole spectrum. In some case the escape was successful, and it can be argued that the rebellious streak encouraged in the subculture assisted in that.
I'm not going to claim I know anyone there, the black metalhead I attend concerts with doesn't even bear a resemblance to the token black metalhead depicted, and is significantly younger.
I'm just going to claim that metalheads in general didn't all end up in dead-end jobs, or sacrificing their love of the genre. In some cases the attire may have changed, but clothing doesn't make the man, or the movement. It's a convenient identifier, but people don't always feel the need to "fit in" as time progresses.
Also, not that every person who waves "devil horns" knows this, but that particular gesture has a long history, in more than one culture, and doesn't always, to my knowledge bear the negative connotations associated with it in this one.
Will I bother to use my real name? Only if you ask respectfully. Given the way you've treated other respondents, forgive me for not holding my breath.
However, I won't presume you won't either.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: HMPL
-- Aug 28, 2004 at 8:08PM
No -- just not a coward like you. Use your real name or fuck off, insect.
Name: Nunya
Subject: HMPL
-- Aug 28, 2004 at 4:07PM
Yeah, let's put our full names and addresses and places of employment on the Internet. While you're at it, don't foget to put your social security number, too.
What are you fuckin' stupid?
Name: S.
Subject: update on kid in HMPL
-- Jun 9, 2004 at 6:07PM
I know one of the kids in the film. He recognized himself the other day when VH1 showed clips of it, being #16 on the "100 Most Metal Moments". He was a successful stockbroker for a number of years and is now in the insurance industry. He's pretty stoked that, as he puts it, HE is #16 on the Most Metal Moments list. He's married and has twin girls. He's a friggin riot to hang out with, always has been. LOT's of stories with that dude. This is just another one.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Gram
-- Jun 8, 2004 at 6:38AM
What's your real name, "Tony"? What's your email address? Let's verify this if it's true.
And if it true, what's Gram doing today? Is there some way we can verify this -- checking with his work place, for instance?
You have to verify these things, "Tony." Because, this being the internet, and you going on a first-name basis, let's say I have my doubts. State your full name. You have nothing to lose doing this. If you feel comfortable enough giving out an email address, then please give it out.
And as I recall, Gram was with a bunch of kids -- any updates on them? This should be interesting.
Name: Tony
Subject: Gram
-- Jun 8, 2004 at 1:01AM
Gram just so happens to be from the west coast (Oregon.) I went to high school with him at Central High School in Seat Pleasant, MD. I graduated in '86, and him and I were often mistaken as brothers by the blacks (school was about 65-70 percent that.) I writing this because of the statement "... west coast my ass" that was mentioned. He is from Oregon, which happens to be on the west coast. Of course, I realize you wouldn't know that he truly was from the west coast, but calling him a "liar" without knowing is bull-shit!!!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Williams Issues
-- Jun 7, 2004 at 1:13PM
Yawn.
Wouldn't it be a better move in terms of your writing style and intent to say "Did some heavy metal dudes bang your boyfriend in high school?"?
Congrats on being very successful. Professional photo-journalism, I take it?
Name: Rawkmon
Subject: Williams Issues
-- Jun 7, 2004 at 12:45PM
Dude, what's your problem? Did some heavy metal dudes bang your girl in high school? You rag on every person in the "Rockumentary&q uot; It's a part of history. Your just mad cause your Mom didnt let you go! I was at that show and am very successful, without College..Don't be a dick!!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: A Drive Back In Time: Remembering 'Heavy Metal Parking Lot'
-- Aug 13, 2002 at 1:36PM
"Scott" -- I thought you "won", man! Take a load off. Pop a few Xanax, or whatever miracle drug your mom's therapist got you hooked on before you became a professional photojournalist.
Speaking of your professional photojournalism, feel free to post a few URLs for your work here -- sounds like you need a break. Take a load off, my man! Still don't know your real name, man. And that's far more sad than any nonsense you're spilling out out here. Have some balls, like Rob Halford, and state your name. Otherwise, some people might surmise that you're a coward.
But, not me, man! You're still cool as Dokken in my book! Scott roooocccckkkkssss!
Name: Anonymous Internet Shithead
Subject: A Drive Back In Time: Remembering 'Heavy Metal Parking Lot'
-- Aug 13, 2002 at 12:39PM
Hey, I told you. Don't fuck with little Willie Ratshit. He can't handle criticism!
You know, Willie, it's really sad that you can't find any better use of your time than making fun of old hairstyles and attitudes, and then insulting people when they bust you for it. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Hey let's make fun of retards next!!
If you intend to be a real journalist and not just some dipshit working for some two-bit site that nobody's ever heard of, I suggest you get a little thicker skin, Willie. You're gonna need it.
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: whatever!
-- Aug 11, 2002 at 9:05AM
I had fun "over-philosoph izing." Repeat FUN!!! Man, if you don't like the article, just say so. And say it with your real name attached. As for some "real issues man" -- this is shorthand for saying "I don't agree with you." Which is fine -- just state your point of view instead of playing anonymous internet head games. Where were you during English class -- doing bongloads in a van in the parking lot with "Screaming for Vengeance" blasting from an eight track?
Name: jg
Subject: whatever!
-- Aug 11, 2002 at 4:08AM
I started to really enjoy your article, but it seems like you have some real issues man. Why over-philosophize this pic - it's really just a snapshot in time of metal subculture and meant in fun!!!! Repeat FUN!!!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 3:00PM
Ah! Hey, everybody, there goes Scott, the anonymous internet shithead who's now a professional photojournalist and had a 3.5 GPA, but is still a real metalhead at heart. Watch the Pacer with flame decals on the side disappear in the distance. Quick, someone put on "Never Say Goodbye" by Bon Jovi, man.
But, take heart, man. He won! Scott won, man! He came here and kicked that homo's ass! That's what he deserves for attacking metal! Everyone, sing along with me: Scott is the champion, my friends, and he'll go on fighting, 'til the end! Scott is the champion, Scott is the champion. No time for Leisure, because Scott is the champion, of the wuuhllldd!
Adios, amigo. You incredibly deep, soulful, anonymous internet shithead who's now a professional photojournalist and had a 3.5 GPA, but is still a real metalhead at heart.
Name: Scott
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 2:53PM
This is completely juvenile, albeit enormously entertaining.
What once promised to be an interesting debate over the film "Heavy Metal Parking Lot" has denigrated into a shit-slinging contest. That's fine, but I'm getting bored with it now. And I really don't see the 'everybody' that you keep referring to. From what I can see, I'm the only person who's posted here for the last six months. Delusions of grandeur, William?
You launch a heavy helping of personal attacks, all the while hoping no-one notices the fact that I gave you a black eye in our debate. I won! You resorted to calling me a pussy! How original! I totally rattled you! HAHAHA!
So I'll leave you to your little corner of the internet. Who knows, maybe someone will poke their head in here in another six months and y'all can talk about how out of style mullets are. Yuk! Yuk!
But whoever does, I'll offer you this tip: Just point and laugh at the metalheads and don't get too deep with William, because he can't handle an honest debate. Just trust his sanctimoniously smug assertion that he knows cool (he likes delta bluesmen! He's sooo non-mainstream!) and everything else is just....not.
Ciao!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 2:11PM
Hey, everybody, please be cool around Scott, the anonymous internet shithead who's now a professional photojournalist and had a 3.5 GPA, but is still a real metalhead at heart. He doesn't like when you hassle him, man. He can hassle you, but you can't hassle him. I'm not quite sure what this has to do with validating his feelings, man, but let it ride, amigo, let it ride.
He still rocks! He's like Wayne in Wayne's World, save he cut his hair a bit shorter ... but, dude, he's still giving free mustache rides! Awooo! Lay-uh-dies, free mustache rides courtesy of my man, Scott -- hop on, mamas! The man is walking metal -- he's like a fucking robot, man, in a Japanese movie -- only he's metal, man! A rockin' metal robot.
I heard he once kicked Axel Rose's ass, man, for not validating his feelings. This man is rock! Forget about the Ox -- long live Scott, the anonymous internet shithead who's now a professional photojournalist and had a 3.5 GPA, but is still a real metalhead at heart. Sing with me in your best Iron Maiden falsetto: He is Rock! He is Rock! He is Rock!
Name: Scott
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 2:04PM
Whew! I really got under your skin didn't I? Sorry, man!
Hey, everybody, be sure to catch Williams next feature. He'll be making fun of people who liked New Kids on the Block. Man, what were those people thinking?! Har! Har!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 1:55PM
Oh, hey, look everybody! It's Scott, the anonymous internet shithead who's now a professional photojournalist and had a 3.5 GPA, but is still a real metalhead at heart! Hi, Scott! Still rocking, man, still rocking!
Hey, everybody! Scott is here! You all know Scott. Watch what you say around him, man! You might not validate his feelings! He still rocks, man, but you still have to validate his feelings! He makes a lot of money taking pictures now and really worked hard for that 3.5 GPA, but take my word for it, you wouldn't know it to look at him, but, man he's still a metalhead.
Oh, I'm so glad everyone here loves him. Scott, I knew they would. I'm so glad I know you, man -- you validate my feelings. And still rock. And are so unsnobbish. Man -- you must get more chicks than all of Motley Crue put together. Tell me all your secrets, bro!
Name: Scott
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 1:45PM
Nice little ad hominem attack there, William. I'm actually disappointed. I had expected more from you.
A pussy? Is that the best you got? You really hurt my feelings (snif!)
You've just proved in your last post what I suspeced all along. You're nothing but a sorry, opinionated wannabe journalist snob who thinks their shit don't stink. And when called on the carpet for your provincial attitudes you resort to name-calling. Brilliant!
I'm sure Gramma is looking down from heaven beaming with pride at what her little Willie has become.
...oh, and by the way, FOGHAT SUCKED!!
Name: William S. Repsher Responds
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 1:28PM
Hello, anonymous internet shithead! I was referring to the article itself -- not "Yak Shak" commentary. Snobbery? Buddy, you find me one fucking grown man who prefers some metal band's half-baked attempts at blues to the actual blues themselves, and I'll show you a bloated 35-year-old in a trailer in an Iron Maiden 1983 muscle shirt! That's not snobbery, dickhead -- that's truth.
Actually, Scott, I already sensed you were a pussy -- raised on 90s/PC emoto-talk, where everyone's thoughts and feelings are valid, man, and oh, how dare anyone poke fun at metalheads, these people are sacrosanct because I was one for five years, man, and all those kids are really all right and cool, man. A 3.5 GPA? Who gives a fuck? So, if you got a 1.0 GPA in one year of junior college, flunked out, drank every day from there on and were now some bloated welfare case, I'm supposed to think any more or less of you?
No, Scott -- I smell pussy, and that pussy is you. All grown up and a professional photojournalist, my I'm so impressed, but still cognizant of his rocking metal past. Fuck you, you great big pussy! You're about as metal as motherfucking Liberace! Whatever past you had with the music, it was all wasted. But her dad really might have liked Dokken! My god ... is this what the world of metal has come to?
Get lost, you pussy. Snap some pictures. But don't try to pass yourself off as some died-in-the-wool metalhead who grew up just fine and is now a professional photojournalist with a 3.5 GPA. Fuck you! My grandmother is more metal than you -- and she's been dead for twenty years!
Name: Scott
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Parking Lot
-- Jul 31, 2002 at 1:17PM
Fair enough. Here's the quote:
"If I really want to hear the blues, I'll put on old Muddy Waters, Jimmy Reed, Robert Nighthawk, Howlin Wolf records and skip the white boys for the most part, save Peter Green era Fleetwood Mac and late 60s Stones. Lonesome Dave? He should have a national monument for "Slow Ride." And it's a shame Foghat is now on that small-town bar circuit like so many other 70s a |
